Super Rare Games Talks Digital Publishing, “Shorts” Criticism, And Anticipating The Switch Successor
Nintendo Life: Looking back, it feels crazy that the first time we spoke was for Super Rare’s second anniversary back in February 2020. Quite a bit has happened since then! What would you say is the biggest difference between how Super Rare was operating then and now?
George Perkins, Super Rare Games: It feels like a lifetime ago we first spoke! A lot has changed. I think the two biggest things have been that, firstly, our team is much larger. Originally we were a handful of people and an amazing shipping team. Now we are roughly 25, whilst still having everyone who was there at the time. As a company we have matured a lot, I was 19 when we first started, and between then and now, I have grown a lot as a person, which has been the same as the rest of the company. We are incredibly on top of what we do, [and] have a lot of new processes and methods to ensure communication internally, externally with partners, and with our community is efficient, transparent, and positive.
The other biggest thing is how strong our brand has become. Back then, the pitching process was often very involved. We were going up against a lot of competitors who were more established and had a longer track record. Now, it’s a lot easier, we have released over 100 titles physically, having worked on some of the best indie titles from the last 10 years, as well as incredible games people may not have heard about before.
Have you found the demand for physical Switch games changing over the years? There are 140+ million consoles in the wild now, but your average print run seems to be pretty steady at around 3-4000.
With what we do, it was always going to be a niche, we never expected to release a title and sell thousands of copies. Our numbers over the last six-and-a-half years have been pretty much consistent. Our aim as a company is to always be run in a sustainable way, and we have very much kept to that and continue to. The games we work on are often made by one-to-five people so relatively speaking, selling this amount of copies is very worthwhile.
Our aim as a company is to always be run in a sustainable way
We have always been obsessed with branding since we first started, and creating a physical release of a title is a great way for developers to engage with their biggest fans.
You told us that when starting out your only criteria for publishing was whether you liked a game or not. That quickly changed, but what’s the signing process like now compared to 2020? Is it easier now that Super Rare is so established?
The honest answer is it’s largely still the case! Being in the fortunate position I am in, I have been able to not only sign titles that are important to me (such as A Short Hike), but also to those closest to me. My dad was a massive fan of World of Goo, so to be able to surprise him with that release was very exciting, as well as Sally Face, which is my little brother’s favourite game.
This isn’t always the case, for example, I get really easily scared, so I don’t naturally gravitate to the horror genre. Similar with a few other types of games which I don’t tend to play as much of.
In 2021 you announced Super Rare Shorts and the negative reaction led to a swift course correction. Can you talk a little about your experience of processing feedback during that brief period following the announcement? Did you have any internal doubts or anticipate the reaction?
Super Rare Shorts was a project I was very passionate about. The idea was to support small developers to make sustainable games. Due to the sheer volume of titles released every day, a lot of small teams will never even sell a few thousand [copies] of the games that they spend so long making. Knowing this firsthand, we wanted to create a sustainable way for developers to release more niche titles and allow them to be profitable from day one. At the time of announcing Super Rare Shorts, we were selling 5,000 copies of all of our titles within the first few weeks, so we knew this would largely benefit developers.
The issues around it [and] criticism we received – all were logical responses and I do fully understand them. Limiting a game’s success was the main one, and I understand that. Having a ceiling on any sort of media will always be seen as a negative, but I do still back the intention and reasoning for why Super Rare Shorts was something I was passionate about.
How did that experience influence your approach and Super Rare’s direction in the years since?
I think it was a good reminder about always considering all the parties involved in a release, the developers have always been our priority, but thinking about the audience and our fans became clear. Whilst we have always prided ourselves in the way we treat our audience, both in terms of the quality of work we produce, but also the level of transparency we provide, it was an important moment to ensure we are aligned, and continue to be, with our fans.
Super Rare Originals saw you move into digital publishing. How have you found that shift to include digital alongside your physical output?
Most people I chat to find the physical market way harder to get a grip of, so it was interesting to be entering the digital publishing market after already mastering the physical space. It has provided a few hurdles to jump through and a lot of learnings to be made, but it’s been a great time, and has been incredibly rewarding to be able to be more involved in projects. Our involvement in a game is way higher than it is in our physical releases, so it requires a lot more planning to execute. We have brought in a lot of new faces who are incredibly experienced in this space, so it has meant that we aren’t entering it completely blind.
Has the post-pandemic turmoil in the industry over the past couple of years affected Super Rare? If so, how?
The short answer is no. We did initially see a bit of a drop off in physical sales, but this year we have seen a resurgence, and this year is set to be our biggest year. The digital market is incredibly challenging at the moment, but we are still in a position where we are actively investing in new titles. We have always been focused on a sustainable business model, so it has meant we never take risky decisions on what we fund, meaning we have been able to continue to operate in the same way as before. We are very fortunate to be one of the leading physical indie publishers, which provides us with a lot of stability in everything outside of that.
You’ve also moved into physical PS5 games since we last talked. How does the process differ between running limited prints of Sony and Nintendo games?
Our general rule of thumb is we find the demand for a PS title to be 25% of that for the Nintendo Switch.
The process is largely the same! Both the way we work with the developers, but also with the platforms themselves. The demand for physical PS titles is certainly smaller, but this is to be expected. Nintendo has always been a company built around fan service and a deep connection with their fans, so this translates well to what we are working on. Our general rule of thumb is we find the demand for a PS title to be 25% of that for the Nintendo Switch, but of course this depends on the game.
What are your thoughts on the Switch eShop from a publisher perspective? Is there anything you’d like to see implemented that you believe would improve visibility for your games on the store?
The Switch has always been an incredibly receptive place for indie titles, so it’s certainly an amazing place for us to share our games on. With that said, it can often be a tricky place for new players to come across new titles. There are the charts and featuring sections, but these only usually benefit massive titles or a handful of others. I would love to have a few new features to increase visibility, but I am sure Nintendo are aware of this, and will continue to make modifications to the eShop to benefit smaller developers.
Looking back over Super Rare’s history, is there anything you wanted but weren’t able to do, for whatever reason?
There are always physical titles that I would love to have had the chance to work on! GRIS, Celeste, Undertale, and Death’s Door come to mind when thinking about games I would love to have had some involvement in.
On the digital front, we aren’t working with crazy big budgets, so there have been a handful of titles that we didn’t have the funding available to support.
Is there a Super Rare release you look back on with particular pride?
Our involvement in a game is way higher than it is in our physical releases, so it requires a lot more planning to execute.
There are a few, but it does feel like picking a favourite child! The obvious one is A Short Hike, the package we created for that was the best thing we have ever produced! It’s also a game which changed the way that developers thought about their own projects, so we will look back on it as an incredibly pivotal release for a large number of developers. The other game that comes to mind is Abzu, it’s such a masterpiece and took a long time to sign, so getting to work on that was incredible.
On the digital side, it would be Tiny Terry’s Turbo Trip. When I first met Lars [snekflat], the developer of the game, I knew instantly that I had to work with him. When showing it internally, I must have played the pitch video a dozen times every day to all the team. I said if we didn’t sign it I would step down immediately. Fortunately, everyone loved it as much as I did and we got to work on an amazing game.
Looking to the future, do you expect to continue physical releases for the “Switch successor” in the coming years?
Yep! We are really excited by whatever Nintendo decides to do next. I always get very excited about a new system to release. It brings a lot of new opportunities and a clean slate to start a new collection of titles. We envision it being a really positive moment for us and our fans.
Finally, last time we asked you if there was a dream game you’d like to release physically on Switch (you said Advance Wars). Is there a white whale you’ve got your eye on at the moment?
It’s a tough question to answer, there are so many. The titles that spring to mind are The Last Campfire, The Case of the Golden Idol, and Another Crab’s Treasure. I have to stress these are all titles we haven’t signed and are just a few of my favourite indie games of the last few years.
Many thanks to George for taking the time to answer our questions (with a rapid turnaround!), and to Chris at Dead Good for setting things up. You can find out more about Super Rare’s impressive collection and upcoming releases on its website.
Nintendo Life: Looking back, it feels crazy that the first time we spoke was for Super Rare's second anniversary back in February 2020. Quite a bit has happened since then! What would you say is the biggest difference between how Super Rare was operating then and now?
George Perkins, Super Rare Games: It feels like a lifetime ago we first spoke! A lot has changed. I think the two biggest things have been that, firstly, our team is much larger. Originally we were a handful of people and an amazing shipping team. Now we are roughly 25, whilst still having everyone who was there at the time. As a company we have matured a lot, I was 19 when we first started, and between then and now, I have grown a lot as a person, which has been the same as the rest of the company. We are incredibly on top of what we do, [and] have a lot of new processes and methods to ensure communication internally, externally with partners, and with our community is efficient, transparent, and positive.
The other biggest thing is how strong our brand has become. Back then, the pitching process was often very involved. We were going up against a lot of competitors who were more established and had a longer track record. Now, it’s a lot easier, we have released over 100 titles physically, having worked on some of the best indie titles from the last 10 years, as well as incredible games people may not have heard about before.
Have you found the demand for physical Switch games changing over the years? There are 140+ million consoles in the wild now, but your average print run seems to be pretty steady at around 3-4000.
With what we do, it was always going to be a niche, we never expected to release a title and sell thousands of copies. Our numbers over the last six-and-a-half years have been pretty much consistent. Our aim as a company is to always be run in a sustainable way, and we have very much kept to that and continue to. The games we work on are often made by one-to-five people so relatively speaking, selling this amount of copies is very worthwhile.
Our aim as a company is to always be run in a sustainable way
We have always been obsessed with branding since we first started, and creating a physical release of a title is a great way for developers to engage with their biggest fans.
You told us that when starting out your only criteria for publishing was whether you liked a game or not. That quickly changed, but what's the signing process like now compared to 2020? Is it easier now that Super Rare is so established?
The honest answer is it's largely still the case! Being in the fortunate position I am in, I have been able to not only sign titles that are important to me (such as A Short Hike), but also to those closest to me. My dad was a massive fan of World of Goo, so to be able to surprise him with that release was very exciting, as well as Sally Face, which is my little brother's favourite game.
This isn't always the case, for example, I get really easily scared, so I don’t naturally gravitate to the horror genre. Similar with a few other types of games which I don’t tend to play as much of.
In 2021 you announced Super Rare Shorts and the negative reaction led to a swift course correction. Can you talk a little about your experience of processing feedback during that brief period following the announcement? Did you have any internal doubts or anticipate the reaction?
Super Rare Shorts was a project I was very passionate about. The idea was to support small developers to make sustainable games. Due to the sheer volume of titles released every day, a lot of small teams will never even sell a few thousand [copies] of the games that they spend so long making. Knowing this firsthand, we wanted to create a sustainable way for developers to release more niche titles and allow them to be profitable from day one. At the time of announcing Super Rare Shorts, we were selling 5,000 copies of all of our titles within the first few weeks, so we knew this would largely benefit developers.
The issues around it [and] criticism we received - all were logical responses and I do fully understand them. Limiting a game's success was the main one, and I understand that. Having a ceiling on any sort of media will always be seen as a negative, but I do still back the intention and reasoning for why Super Rare Shorts was something I was passionate about.
How did that experience influence your approach and Super Rare's direction in the years since?
I think it was a good reminder about always considering all the parties involved in a release, the developers have always been our priority, but thinking about the audience and our fans became clear. Whilst we have always prided ourselves in the way we treat our audience, both in terms of the quality of work we produce, but also the level of transparency we provide, it was an important moment to ensure we are aligned, and continue to be, with our fans.
Super Rare Originals saw you move into digital publishing. How have you found that shift to include digital alongside your physical output?
Most people I chat to find the physical market way harder to get a grip of, so it was interesting to be entering the digital publishing market after already mastering the physical space. It has provided a few hurdles to jump through and a lot of learnings to be made, but it’s been a great time, and has been incredibly rewarding to be able to be more involved in projects. Our involvement in a game is way higher than it is in our physical releases, so it requires a lot more planning to execute. We have brought in a lot of new faces who are incredibly experienced in this space, so it has meant that we aren't entering it completely blind.
Has the post-pandemic turmoil in the industry over the past couple of years affected Super Rare? If so, how?
The short answer is no. We did initially see a bit of a drop off in physical sales, but this year we have seen a resurgence, and this year is set to be our biggest year. The digital market is incredibly challenging at the moment, but we are still in a position where we are actively investing in new titles. We have always been focused on a sustainable business model, so it has meant we never take risky decisions on what we fund, meaning we have been able to continue to operate in the same way as before. We are very fortunate to be one of the leading physical indie publishers, which provides us with a lot of stability in everything outside of that.
You've also moved into physical PS5 games since we last talked. How does the process differ between running limited prints of Sony and Nintendo games?
Our general rule of thumb is we find the demand for a PS title to be 25% of that for the Nintendo Switch.
The process is largely the same! Both the way we work with the developers, but also with the platforms themselves. The demand for physical PS titles is certainly smaller, but this is to be expected. Nintendo has always been a company built around fan service and a deep connection with their fans, so this translates well to what we are working on. Our general rule of thumb is we find the demand for a PS title to be 25% of that for the Nintendo Switch, but of course this depends on the game.
What are your thoughts on the Switch eShop from a publisher perspective? Is there anything you'd like to see implemented that you believe would improve visibility for your games on the store?
The Switch has always been an incredibly receptive place for indie titles, so it's certainly an amazing place for us to share our games on. With that said, it can often be a tricky place for new players to come across new titles. There are the charts and featuring sections, but these only usually benefit massive titles or a handful of others. I would love to have a few new features to increase visibility, but I am sure Nintendo are aware of this, and will continue to make modifications to the eShop to benefit smaller developers.
Looking back over Super Rare's history, is there anything you wanted but weren't able to do, for whatever reason?
There are always physical titles that I would love to have had the chance to work on! GRIS, Celeste, Undertale, and Death's Door come to mind when thinking about games I would love to have had some involvement in.
On the digital front, we aren't working with crazy big budgets, so there have been a handful of titles that we didn't have the funding available to support.
Is there a Super Rare release you look back on with particular pride?
Our involvement in a game is way higher than it is in our physical releases, so it requires a lot more planning to execute.
There are a few, but it does feel like picking a favourite child! The obvious one is A Short Hike, the package we created for that was the best thing we have ever produced! It’s also a game which changed the way that developers thought about their own projects, so we will look back on it as an incredibly pivotal release for a large number of developers. The other game that comes to mind is Abzu, it’s such a masterpiece and took a long time to sign, so getting to work on that was incredible.
On the digital side, it would be Tiny Terry’s Turbo Trip. When I first met Lars [snekflat], the developer of the game, I knew instantly that I had to work with him. When showing it internally, I must have played the pitch video a dozen times every day to all the team. I said if we didn’t sign it I would step down immediately. Fortunately, everyone loved it as much as I did and we got to work on an amazing game.
Looking to the future, do you expect to continue physical releases for the "Switch successor" in the coming years?
Yep! We are really excited by whatever Nintendo decides to do next. I always get very excited about a new system to release. It brings a lot of new opportunities and a clean slate to start a new collection of titles. We envision it being a really positive moment for us and our fans.
Finally, last time we asked you if there was a dream game you'd like to release physically on Switch (you said Advance Wars). Is there a white whale you've got your eye on at the moment?
It’s a tough question to answer, there are so many. The titles that spring to mind are The Last Campfire, The Case of the Golden Idol, and Another Crab's Treasure. I have to stress these are all titles we haven’t signed and are just a few of my favourite indie games of the last few years.
Many thanks to George for taking the time to answer our questions (with a rapid turnaround!), and to Chris at Dead Good for setting things up. You can find out more about Super Rare's impressive collection and upcoming releases on its website.
